What is your definition of justice to start with? Justice asks for definition and reasons for calling an action a crime, strict evidence for this crime, correction of the person involved in the crime and rehabilitation of the person into the society so s/he could be a productive member of the society.

Is it really strict on evidence? I have lost count on the number of people punished by Sharia laws with evidence that can be hardly called evidence.
How do you or the Sharia court get the right to kill anyone for whatever reason. If its for murder, wouldnt it be a crime to willfully take the life of a person. Again your idea of justice is flawed, you substitute revenge for justice and can be hardly be called justice. What would you call insulting religion? By your definition of religion, followers of Shia, Sufi and Ahmeddiya sects of Islam are all insulting religion from a Sunni perspective. Would it be death sentence for all? Who gets to decide what exactly religion teaches? You see it from a narrow perspective of one interpretation of one sect of one religion. Would it not be insulting to other sects or interpretations or religions by claiming what your religion says about anything? Then wouldnt it be everyone killing everyone?

There was this one case where a 16 year old girl was raped in Iran. The court convicted her of adultery and sentenced her to some lashes while the man was acquitted for lack of evidence. She threw a shoe at him in rage, and was sentenced to death. All this was based on Sharia law. What is the whole purpose of Sharia 'justice' if all it does is this? Who gave Sharia or the mullahs the right to tell a man and a woman to do what can and cannot be done with their bodies? You think the 4 witnesses have to be in a bedroom to say there was adultery? And what is adult by Sharia standards? 18, 16 or 9 years old? There is regular stoning of women, not all makes it to the media. Isnt denying women a full role in the society and treating like cattle [like in Sharia countries of Saudi Arabia and ex-Afghanistan] mistreatment of women? Crime and punishment are complicated issues and I dont think Sharia has any sense of justice to it, all interpretations.
Laws are very easy to make, but any law has to keep a sense of justice to it. You cannot punish people for criticism or for doing what is normal to people. There is no justice there.
You say that non-muslim beliefs are respected, but can you show me which Sharia country does that? Iran? Saudi Arabia? Malaysia? Ex-Afghanistan? If you read history couple of hundred million non-Muslims were killed by Muslims.
The stricter the punishment, the lesser any sense of justice. Like I mentioned before, punishment is only a part of the entire justice. The more rigid the punishment for things that arent even 'wrong' to begin with will only make people disillusioned and will only make crime worse. There is always a huge increase in crime since these ex-convicts have lost hope in life, society and justice and cannot function as normal humans.
Many countries have adopted Sharia either from huge pressure from Muslims or cuz they form a huge portion of the population and can make them into law. You entire explanation does not offer any real answers.

Aight mate, I respect your views regarding this matter but I would like to tell you that the Islamic Sharia Law was formed 1400+ years ago when crimes such as adultery etc were undoubtedly less compared to today. This law was formed when people were afraid and had a real fear of God and lived their lives strictly according to their religion, as opposed to now when people turn around and question you and do not follow their religion as closely or as strictly. An example for this is in the olden days, if you had your hand amputated for comitting the offence of robbery, all the others would hold back and be scared and afraid to commit the act. It was a way of warning the others which prevented them from doing the same.
Now however, people do not respect the law, they turn around and question it and enter the road of revenge.
Iran, Afganistan etc they are countries in which in the olden days Sharia Law was carried out fairly, as opposed to now when the leaders just take out there anger and make unfair decisions purely to show they they the males are much stronger and fall in to bribes etc and commit acts (or shall I say sins) under the name of Sharia Law. They are countries in which the feeling of power gets to the leaders heads and they ignore everything else and do what they think is correct, which is completely wrong.
One big reason for this would plainly be a lack of education, as we all know that a lack of education causes a country and its people to suffer a lot.
In the olden days, education wasn't a big deal, and neither were people deceptive, they were honest and naive and carried things out just like they were supposed to, but now things have changed and these leaders carry out many offences under the name of Sharia Law for example plainly for their own selfish needs (bribery?).
Every part of every persons religion spreads the message of love and peace. The Sharia Law has nothing wrong in it if it is followed closely, not deceptively.
Every religion has a minority of people within it who degrade their religion etc, and then the media comes along and exaggerates everything.
What's happening in this world is wrong, there are many offences commited now (for example such as adultery), which in the olden days were a sin in every single religion; infact they still are, but because people are becoming less religious they are forgetting the main aspects of their religion.
Sharia Law is one part of Islam, just like many other religions which will have their own Law; but the only problem is that people are not following it as they are supposed to.
People are not the people they were in the olden days. I am not criticising anyone or the people of today, I am just saying that there are some Islamic contries in the world which are messing with the real meaning of Sharia Law and then the media comes along to exaggerate little points, hence the reason people say not to believe what you see on the news.
The countries which are messing with the real meaning of Sharia Islamic Law are the countries which lack education. Education opens of your eyes and your hearts to feelings and emotions that you would not experience if you were uneducated.
Education has the power to put sense in to you, it gives you the power to think fairly.
If these countries are educated and are financially well, then firstly they will have the power to think before they carry out the laws in the incorrect way, and secondly it would prevent them from falling in to the trap of bribery as these countries are financially not well settled aswell as being uneducated. Coming to capital punishments, it is carried out in many countries around the World because they also think it is the appropriate way to deal with murders, etc. Every country adopts things from different religions and cultures which they think are appropriate and would make their country a better place to be. The fact of how these things are handled lies purily and solely on the leaders which run the country.
I hope this answers all your questions, and I also wish peace in this World. Every religion promotes peace and love, the only thing letting it down are a few people and as I said before the illicit media. I respect all religions and simply think of every religion as a way and excuse of spreading love and peace. I don't want to cause any debates now and I respect your views, I also hope you respect my views as well.

Exactly, Sharia Law was written 1400 years ago, and I cant seem to find any mention of human rights or a humane way of punishing people back then, in pretty much all religions. You again go off the tangent, and fail to answer my questions on justice and punishment. Punishment is meant to deter people from committing crimes and not meant to inhumane. In the olden days, people didnt seem to think much about humanity. What kind of evidence do you have to claim that people followed religion steadfastly? I ask you cuz I havent found any evidence.

Where do you have to evidence to show that in the olden days all the religious laws were followed. Since you put forth my Iran and Afghanistan as the examples, did you know that before Islam there was Zoroastrianism and Buddhism in those countries? Since Islam supplanted those religions with itself, whose rules would be correct? I havent found any evidence of people's inner behavior changing much in even 5000 years, why do you think it was so good back then? All the world was a feudal society back then, there would have been no reason to believe that everything was allright and people were plain happy back then. People havent changed a bit in thousands of years, they have been the same median, deceptive, selfish, power hungry as always. If you dont believe me, you can read history for yourself. Education by itself wont solve anything, education is about learning to read and write and learn a trade. Understanding and comprehending a system of justice is completely different. USSR was 95+% educated but it was severely unjust.
You seem to take to believe that main reason for so many offenses are that people are less religious now. Do you have any evidence to show this? I have not found any such evidence in all the reading I did on history and sociology. Since you say that all religions have their own law, which law is correct, surely you have an opinion.
Media will sell what people buy and it sells sensationalism. Despite this, there is good information in all this news. Beyond the perhaps exaggerated or sensational, lie events that do stand out for their issues they represent. The media may exaggerate but how do you contradict the stuff you see in the media, I mean they do have a basis. Its like saying there is no smoke without fire.
So assuming all these Sharia countries dont follow the true Sharia, what is the true Sharia? Who knows best, more than all the mullahs of those countries that feed into the law? I dont think education or money alone can do much for society. Josef Stalin was a brilliant student in his youth, Adolf Hitler had good education, Pol Pot was a history teacher, most of the dictators and mass killers were educated, Josef Mengele was a doctor and yet he conducted painful experiments on live humans. Wealth by itself wont solve anything. Do you think the biggest crimes were over money? or were they over power by people who already had money and wanted more? I would think that people need to have a sense of justice and a belief in human dignity. Lot of countries have death penalty and lot of them dont. But most of them dont have them for 'insulting religion'. Each country does things in its own way and perhaps there is nothing wrong with it but most agree on some very common points, such as human rights, human dignity and justice, which we are debating here.
I do respect your views but I dont agree with them. You still have not answered what your concept of justice is. Just bcuz something are done a certain way does not mean it is justified. What is your concept of justice? Religions speak of certain methods, most of which were developed long time ago when the entire concept of justice or human rights were non-existent. If you read all the religions [I read about 5] it doesnt seem to be anything close to love and peace. They are all about bringing order to society with brute force. Does religion fare over humans for you? Are humans built for religions or are religions built for humans?

The fact that the religion of Islam was and is widely accepted and followed around in those areas?
At that time, when Islam came in, the population was not forced to become muslims but they chose their religion themselves. If they thought Islam was the religion, then I am sure they must have looked at all the things before deciding?
During the Rashidun Caliphate there were non-muslims living in the Empire and they were allowed to practice and definately follow their religions, Sharia Law was the law that was used in the Empire and I don't see any evidence that the non-muslims were against Sharia Law?

Greed and Jealousy are some of things which have caused a lot of problems around the World. These emotions have been the root cause of the major crimes.
Evidence? LOL!, the 'Westernised World'.
I think I should ask you the same question about which law is correct?
I will say it again that Sharia Law is correct and Sharia is the law which the Holy Qur'an teaches the Muslim Ummah.

It's all stereotypical!

Love and Peace? it seems like you have not been paying a little attention to Islam and towards other religions?
The Qur'an teaches the Sharia Law, if you don't accept Islam or the Sharia Law, then who's forcing you to accept it? There are around 1.8Billion Muslims around the globe, (MashAllah) the most populated religion, they are the followers of Islam and if they accept the Qur'an they accept the Sharia Law because that is what the Qur'an has taught the Muslims.
I don't know where you research from, all I can tell you is that your information is completely biased and against Sharia Law and probably the religion of Islam too. I don't know your beliefs because you have not stated them.
I thought you might compromise with my beliefs, but now I find no point in explaining things to you. Enjoy researching on religions, and please go deeply into the religion of Islam with an un-biased head. May Allah give you knowledge, take care mate.

If you read history, you will see that they were forced and coerced to convert to Islam. The earliest converts were in the Middle East and North Africa since they were conquered first. If they werent forced, why did the Parsis flee to India? Jews and Christians also fled or accepted the status set to them according to Sharia. There were non-Muslims in the Caliphate and they were allowed to practice their religion but as second class citizens. The severity different from period to period and from place to place. Here is some information for you.
You think greed and jealousy are confined to the 'westernized world'? Why do you think other countries dont have this? Would you say that people in a country, lets say, Mongolia doesnt have greed and jealously? Are these the only cause of major crimes?
If you are asking my opinion, I would say Sharia law is highly unjust and out of time. Its treatment of women, homosexuals, non-Muslims and convicts is not consistent with humanity.

Can you elaborate?

No one is forcing me to accept it, but there are millions who are being forced to accept it. There arent 1.8 billion Muslims in the world either, the figure is closer to 1 billion. Many of them dont follow much of the Sharia law, and only very few countries incorporate them completely, others have them in various forms of severity.
I draw information from various sources, many of them Islamic themselves. There are Islamic religious sites that give information on the Sharia law, some are so widely quoted and accepted that it is common knowledge. I also talked to many Muslims who also give me information. So I can say quite confidently that my information is not biased. I am not particularly biased against Islam, I have criticism for Christianity, Judaism and Hinduism too. Some for Buddhism, Jainism and Zoroastrianism.
I cannot compromise with your beliefs unless they are humane. You havent really explained anything to me. You give me vague answers, and none with any evidence. I did go into Islam with an unbiased head and still found it lacking in many ways.

I completely disagree with you, any evidence to say they were forced? I know quite a lot about history too, unlike you who seems to get all his data from a fully-editable website called 'Wikipedia'?
I suggest you to read the same quoted area again, on Wikipedia?
Second class citizens? What are you on about? LOL, seriously have you been researching on Wikipedia?!
People fleeing?, they all lived together as a established community, and again any proof?

You misunderstood me there, they were two seperate points and were not intended to be merged. Westernised World was referred to your other question, look back on to your previous post.
That's your job to find that out

Forced to accept it, forced?! It's the same as if you say, "Muslims accept the Qur'an but do not accept what it says?", By the way, where are the people who are being forced according to you?
Islamic Ummah - 1Billion, this figure should have been more realistic in the 90's, but now we're in a different phase/time. 1.5Billion is confirmed and it is predicted that it is more than 1.8Billion. The fact that it is the most fastest growing religion and it is also a fact that it is the only religion which is growing supports the figures.


You are trying to say you have browsed Islamic sites which are against Sharia Law, including you have talked to Muslims who are also against Sharia Law? And again like I said, you do not need to accept Islam or any of its parts. It is most likely you did not even go into it? or if you did, I am sure that too with biased views and you know that too.

Nice one mate, I can see where you are going and where you would end. I think you need to start again with a fresh mind and re-access your knowledge as far as I know I think it is coming from websites like 'Wikipedia'.
Research on the things I have been saying from authentic sites or find some authentic scholars.
Enjoy your life mate, no need to create religious debates (100% Biased) in forums like dC, you have indeed come to the wrong destination because this is a multi-cultural/religion site.
May Allah take care of you, and I hope you get some sense of only faithful knowledge.

Can you suggest a better site for information than wikipedia? Its editable and people can make changes if they feel the information is incorrect. It also has references to use to show the source to crosscheck if you want to. I have read similar information from other sources, so I think I can trust it. I already gave you the proof and you dont want to accept it. People were forced to convert and people did flee. Here is more information for you.

All right. Point taken.

I guess, I couldnt find it, maybe you can show it to me.

I suppose you are right about the numbers, its about 1.5 billion. It maybe the fastest growing religion but its not the only growing religion.

I didnt say that, you inferred it. I said I got my information from Islamic sites that give information about Sharia Law NOT against Sharia Law. I didnt say I talked to Muslims who are against Sharia Law, I said I got some information on Sharia from Muslims I talked to. You claim my views are biased since you dont agree with them, but I think they are not and they encompass a large range of information from a large range of sources. Maybe you should read Sharia Law yourself.
You slam wikipedia since it gives information that you dont like to face. Its been authenticated as pretty reliable source. If you dont think it is accurate maybe you can recommend a site that you find acceptable and I can quote from there. You talk of authentic sites but never mention any, or do you actually know of any? As stated before, my statements are not biased and its you who cannot accept the dark history.

There are better sites around in large quantities, Wikipedia is considered unreliable in many ways, you might have noticed incorrect information?
Forced? in what period? I am on about the Rashidun Caliphate.

It is the fastest growing religion in Europe and surprisingly in the USA too including my other fact that it is the World's fastest growing religion.
According to CNN, NYTimes and other news sources;
In a span of 9 months after 9/11, around 35,000 Americans accepted and converted to Islam. Now your question of Woman's Rights in Islam, the media has blasted many things about Islam in the Woman Rights section, but the fact is that in those people that converted to Islam in the USA and in Europe, 65-70% converts were women? This should ring a bell, I know, everyone know's that people do not convert religions for nothing. If Islam does not have rights for women, why did such a large amount of women convert to Islam, and these convertions are still running simultaneously? They converted without thinking?
Have you even read about Women Rights in Islam & other religions?

*Drawed in the Women's Right topic because that is one of the major things involved in the media regarding Islam.

Lol, I said it before and I will say it again, if you don't think Sharia Law is appropriate then don't think it is, nobody's asking you to change your beliefs. I know enough about Sharia Law as much as I am supposed to and meant to know.
Muslim's have not raised a voice against Sharia Law, if it was inappropriate then there would be chaos in Islamic Countries..!

The WWW does not start and end at Wikipedia for information? I'm not the only one who is slamming Wikipedia.
Don't like to face? < Exactly what can be said about you in this situation, I am telling you about realistic facts and you are sending negative criticism towards Islam.
Explain to me where Islam does not give Women Rights?, where Sharia Law goes wrong? and other negatives about Islam according to you and not external sources.